Curse

Khomet Si Netjer · Dec 02, 2011, 04:47 AM // 04:47

this problem is not that difficult to overcome.

since heroes often do not see into the near future well enough for my liking I bind keys for weapon buffs like Splinter Weapon and Judge's Insight... in this way I can 'prep' myself before aggro or when an especially good shot presents itself. I bind them to '9' and '0' so I have access to them at will, just like they were my own skills.

I have been able to get more than 1800 damage in one shot without using a tank or minions at all, this is in 'normal' places like FoW and Underworld. The enemies ball up often enough to make splinter barrage quite effective.

Amy Awien · Dec 02, 2011, 10:35 AM // 10:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swingline

The AI is not that advanced. They cast it on whichever physical is currently dealing damage. So its you vs. up to 11 minions.

I usually have close to 20 minions running around.

It doesn't matter who gets SW, it's not your bow or barrage that automatically makes it the mosst effective carrier for splinter weapon. Splinter weapon yields better results when there are more targets adjacent to target that's being hit directly. A minion in the midst of the frey, with foes balled up adjacent to it's target may see al of it's hits maximizing the splinter damage, while some your barrage's hits may hit targets with fewer buddies adjacent to it.

But to be honest, there's not a lot of balling up usually and I find that we can kill them easily in the time otherwise needed to ball them up.

Pluisje · Dec 02, 2011, 12:37 PM // 12:37

Quote:

more than 1800 damage in one shot

I lol'ed at this. Splinter weapon is 6 attacks with 3 hits = 18 packages of dmg. You're saying splinter does 100 dmg on eacht monster lol?

Showtime · Dec 02, 2011, 04:39 PM // 16:39

Well if I were to use all my bows (2 full bow mules+dozen customized) with dozens customized and every possible kind available... I'd still only use 3 bows. Long/flat to pull etc, and zealous and vamp recurves. We just don't do enough damage to justify bring a VS mod except in a couple of areas.

I remember when it was worth bring vs undead bows to fow and raining holy judgement down on the undead. When barrage and judges insight was far better than the splinter barrage we're left with now. Triple digit damage blowing up my wide screen. Oh if I can find screens on my old computer lol. Feel free to use those 15% -10 mods since enemy ai targets rangers last usually especially if you have wd on your bar. Run Radiant runes for the same reason.

We can thank arena net for making one of the most fun weapons into a questionable choice at best.

It's so bad that apparently they are giving us guns in GW2. How can a bow compare to a gun? Guess it won't be fixed in GW2 either.

D3 has bows and if it's anything like D2.... RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO YEAH!

Swingline · Dec 02, 2011, 11:32 PM // 23:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Showtime

It's so bad that apparently they are giving us guns in GW2. How can a bow compare to a gun? Guess it won't be fixed in GW2 either.

Bows do have advantages over guns. For one bows are quiet, they don't automatically give your position away and I doubt GW2 has silencers. A gun has many mechanisms that can jam and fail, bows are more reliable because they are very simple. It would be cool if guns had more realism to them but it will prob be like WoW where a gun and bow of the same level deals the same damage and guns never jam.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Showtime

D3 has bows and if it's anything like D2.... RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO YEAH!

D3 has other problems that are a deal breaker. I won't say anymore so we can stay on topic. If someone wants to know more google it.

Splinter Barrage · Dec 03, 2011, 08:46 AM // 08:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swingline

You don't need spirit rift and body shot. Your spending more energy than body shot gives so it's useless. It's also very slow.

You're right. It was a nice idea (thanks Malganis), and convenient since it was also a Channeling spell, but there was no way to make it work effectively. I played around with various other approaches after posting about it (the build in that post makes me LOL, heh heh), but the experiment failed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swingline

You do not need barrage and volley on the same bar.

With a shortbow and/or IAS, the pause between Barrages--skill recharge, animation delay, etc. accounted for--is longer than what is spammably possible. With Volley on the bar as well, you can alternate between the two, thus increasing your DPS. Energy is still a non-issue (especially with zealous); and while you run out of splinters faster, they do the same damage--so there's really no reason not to bring both. (Or if there is, I'd like to hear it.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coast

what about 9markmanship (with a req8 bow)

I'm reluctant to ever use less (or more) than 12 for a martial weapon, since that's where critical hit average peaks. My build had 13 Exp, 12 Marks, and 11 Channeling (2 major runes). Splinter does almost as much (38 vs. 41), whereas the difference between 10 and 12 Marks is more substantial.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swingline

EBSoH only affects physical and elemental damage [. . . ] You don't need high marksmanship because all your damage comes from splinter.

Why not still do as much damage per arrow as possible (including vampiric, rather than zealous, unless the latter becomes necessary)? After all, even if both you and a hero bring it, SW won't constantly be on you. (And EBSoH also affects your heroes' damage.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Splinter Barrage

A hero-dependent version would free two slots and a lot of attribute points; any suggestions?

Quote:

Originally Posted by HigherMinion

Recommending a ranger run Splinter Weapon on their own bar... I cry.

If my hero is bringing SW, I feel like I may as well run my Ignite build, and deal AoE damage through both. *shrug* It's funny to hear myself say this, since I actually named my account on this forum after the skill combo in question ^_^, but it just seems like I've come a long way since then, and Barrage, preparation-denying as it is, isn't my favorite elite anymore.

That said, with Ignite all my skills are bow attacks, whereas if I'm just spamming Barrage I have a bunch of available slots for doing other things. Out of curiosity, what do you commonly throw in there besides SW, Barrage, LR and DS? Dodge would also benefit from DS, and you could use it instead sometimes (certainly between fights); Flesh of My Flesh is a decent res; Distracting Shot's always worth bringing; with LR, Throw Dirt won't help you, but it would still help the rest of your party . . . you could bring a mixed bag of tricks with this build, which is kind of nice.

It occurs to me that Favorable Winds, besides allowing you to use a flatbow, should give each individual arrow a damage bonus. (Can anyone confirm this?) If so, it becomes another rival for EBSoH.

Wenspire · Dec 03, 2011, 06:49 PM // 18:49

Favwinds is nice but a pain to set each time. Look into a pet maybe.

Splinter Barrage · Dec 03, 2011, 09:38 PM // 21:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wenspire

Favwinds is nice but a pain to set each time.

It's not much worse than a preparation, which with a Barrage build you won't have. And at least it's good for a few fights (which sometimes justifies the recharge; too bad Serpent's Quickness is a Wilderness skill though).

Lanier · Dec 03, 2011, 09:59 PM // 21:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wenspire

Favwinds is nice but a pain to set each time. Look into a pet maybe.

It can be set before the fight begins though, so the casting time is inconsequential. It may still be annoying, but its not any worse due to its casting time, since it only slows down the time between fights, not the time during fights (which is really all that matters).

Wenspire · Dec 04, 2011, 07:52 AM // 07:52

It's basically the time that it takes setting it before going into battle. With heroes, I suppose it's not really an issue. If you are in a PUG then it sometimes becomes a problem. Also unless there are more than 1 bow-user in the group, it doesn't seem like it's worth taking.

Just my $0.02...

Splinter Barrage · Dec 09, 2011, 01:38 AM // 01:38

Wenspire, Swingline, you guys are absolutely right: with a Barrage build, zealous is the money. The multiplied energy gain makes it comparable to Warrior's Endurance; keeping Splinter and your IAS active in long fights is no problem.

(And 5 less dmg per arrow is easily made up for by the nonstop onslaught; I "get it" now.)

I have been running this build, which I prefer to my Ignite build now:

1. Splinter Weapon
2. Dwarven Stability*
3. Lightning Reflexes
4. Barrage
5. Volley**
6. Distracting Shot
7. Favorable Winds
8. Flesh of My Flesh

with 13 Exp, 12 Marks, 11 Channeling, and the leftover in Resto.

* I also think LR+DS wins the battle of IASes. Thanks again, Swingline, for introducing me to that combo.

** With the IAS and flatbow, you can begin firing Volley while Barrage is still recharging, so it's definitely worth bringing both. Has anyone else tried it yet? If it turns out to be my one contribution to everyone's favorite build, I should be glad to give something back to this forum.

Thanks again, guys.

Wenspire · Dec 10, 2011, 06:21 PM // 18:21

Ya. The barrage/volley really only matters when you have either a short or flatbow at +33%IAS. I use those two skills with my Ranger/OoV group-setup.

Khomet Si Netjer · Dec 10, 2011, 11:18 PM // 23:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pluisje

I lol'ed at this. Splinter weapon is 6 attacks with 3 hits = 18 packages of dmg. You're saying splinter does 100 dmg on eacht monster lol?

screenshots say it all. (and ranger would be slightly higher damage as well)
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/User:...urning_Barrage

Amy Awien · Dec 11, 2011, 07:51 AM // 07:51

Interesting, I count more then 15 50's in these, yet splinter weapon, @15 channeling, will only yield 15 packets, that is when all 5 attacks hit 3 adjacent foes each. Even if some barrage arrows happen to yield 50 I still see more then the 22 packets I'd expect.

Anyway, Judges Barrage on undead could hit well into the 200's per hit (say 800-1200 on average for 6 arrows), add 15 packages of Splinter weapon (15x50 = 750), mix in EBSoH and IATS (7x(20+15) = 245) and an occasional 1800 in total is actually not as unlikely as it seems at first glance.

Khomet Si Netjer · Dec 11, 2011, 06:39 PM // 18:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Awien

Interesting, I count more then 15 50's in these, yet splinter weapon, @15 channeling, will only yield 15 packets, that is when all 5 attacks hit 3 adjacent foes each. Even if some barrage arrows happen to yield 50 I still see more then the 22 packets I'd expect.

Anyway, Judges Barrage on undead could hit well into the 200's per hit (say 800-1200 on average for 6 arrows), add 15 packages of Splinter weapon (15x50 = 750), mix in EBSoH and IATS (7x(20+15) = 245) and an occasional 1800 in total is actually not as unlikely as it seems at first glance.

there are varying numbers of enemies in the screenshots but some groups have up to 9 enemies being hit at once... barrage can only hit 6 foes, but splinter can hit them all.

some of the screenshots show damage vs. undead with Judge's Insight active. on these you will up to 224 damage per arrow. This can give you more than 1000 damage (6x180avg) without even considering splinter weapon. Damage vs. foes that are not undead will be less but still quite significant, on the order of 70-100 per arrow if buffed properly... and that is 400-600 damage if hitting the maximum number of targets. On the screenshots where I bothered to count up all the damage I could see 1600-1800+ and it is possible to get even more.

Anyways I did not mean to hijack this thread, I only wanted to say that splinter barrage is very effective, so much so that I use it on my paragon.

Wenspire · Dec 11, 2011, 09:50 PM // 21:50

Judges is a great skill. I just wish it was more energy friendly.

Amy Awien · Dec 12, 2011, 05:59 AM // 05:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Khomet Si Netjer

there are varying numbers of enemies in the screenshots but some groups have up to 9 enemies being hit at once... barrage can only hit 6 foes, but splinter can hit them all.

The discription clearly states "For 20 seconds, target ally has a Splinter Weapon. Target ally's next 1...4...5 attacks deal 5...41...50 damage to up to 3 adjacent foes. "
50 damage implies 15 channeling, and thus 5 attacks, times 3 foes is 15 splinter packets. If I add 7 packets for barrage I get no more then 22, but some screens have more packets. Why?

Wenspire · Dec 13, 2011, 09:35 PM // 21:35

I went back to a video I made awhile back and capped this shot of 26 damage packets from one Barrage (I excluded the pet damage from the count, of course). It looks like 20 packets from Splinter damage of 53 and six from Barrage? Channeling is at 16 on my Rit. Perhaps Splinter does damage to three adjacent AND target?

I have the vid link somewhere in case anyone wants to verify it.

Khomet Si Netjer · Dec 13, 2011, 10:40 PM // 22:40

I agree... seems like a bug
Screenshot #1 on my Burning Barrage page shows 20 hits from Splinter Weapon (-50) and six additional hits from the six Barrage arrows (numbers other than 50). As Amy surmised, my rit hero is set to 15 channeling, so Splinter Weapon should be giving 50 damage to 3 foes for 5 hits, or 15 packets. Both of us are counting up to 20 packets though, which seems to indicate that Splinter is actually dealing damage to 4 adjacent targets.... 4 x 5 = 20.

In any case I am not complaining, I love Splinter Weapon.

note: barrage itself has a similar off-by-one bug (which I have verified), it says that it hits target plus up to 6 adjacent targets, or 7 arrows total... but you can only hit with six arrows, not seven. you can see this behavior for yourself in screenshots 4,5,6 on my Burning Barrage page when I am using a vampiric bow, there are only six +5 packets from the six arrow hits. The enemies there are nicely balled groups of 9 mindblade spectres, so I should have been able to get 7 hits.

Splinter Barrage · Dec 15, 2011, 08:22 AM // 08:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swingline

Forked Arrow is also another candidate. I don't run enchantments on my ranger's hero team[. . . .]

Incendiary Arrows
Triple Shot
Dual Shot
Forked Arrow
Ignite Arrows
EBSoH
Lightning Reflexes
Dwarven Stability

Dwarven Stability is an enchantment spell. ^_^;; (Also, note that it has to be activated before L.R. to get the effect.)

Relying strictly on zealous for energy management now, I've been using that same build, just with Winds in place of Forked (and a, to my mind, more logical order to the skills). Impressive damage output, comparable to the Splinter build. In fact, testing outside Ice Tooth Cave against 10 minotaurs at once, both builds take them down in about the same number of seconds, with energy and health maxed at the end of the fight . . . so it's hard to tell which is better. Ultimately, it's the fact that I also get to bring an interrupt and res that makes me prefer Barrage; it can do the same thing using fewer skills, so it wins.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wenspire

Judges is a great skill. I just wish it was more energy friendly.

That's what you say about everything!

. . . Come to think of it, that's what I say about everything, too. (Heh.) I bring Judge's Insight on a hero whenever I'm doing Tomb of the Primeval Kings or the Underworld. Let me tell you, combined with a bow grip of Deathbane and a Splinter-Barrage build . . . beautiful numbers. (Not unlike the above screen.)

Too bad the AI can't use a smite-healing build correctly. (I can get my hero to use Smiter's Boon, but not Reversal of Damage, etc.) It's wonderful being able to heal by dealing damage; I do that with my own monk all the time.--Speaking of healing, that's another thing which confuses me about your Forked Arrow comment, Swing: how do your monks not use enchantments?